--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I was able to duplicate the problem with the Stop button with Mach3 Version 043.066 (I didn't try 043.067).  Mach3 Version 43.022 seems to work ok.
>
> I traced it down to Mach3 apparently sending different messages to the Plugins.  There is also a difference in the ESC key message.  I can't find any documentation on this but it seems Mach3 treats ESC similar to STOP except it doesn't turn off the Spindle.  I think the reason for this is because the ESC key can be used for other things like canceling an MDI string that is being typed in.  If we turn off the Spindle on an ESC message then we get out of sync with Mach3 (it thinks it is still on).
>
> All the Mach3 "Bible" says is that STOP should send 0xFFFF
>
> In Version 022 we observe STOP = 0xFF3BFFFF and ESC = 0xFFFFFFFF
> In Version 066 we observe STOP = 0xFFFFFFFF and ESC = 19
>
> Sorry for the long winded reply and I'm not sure we fully understand it, but please try this patch.
>
> www.dynomotion.com/Software/Patch/FixMach3Stop/Dynomotion.dll
>
> Copy over the plugin in the Mach3\Plugins directory.  This Plugin is compatible with KMotion Version 4.30
>
>
> Regarding random EStops:  Mach3 does not allow you to disable the EStop input.  Set it to something that won't ever change such as a KFLOP LED (port=1 Pin=46 active LOW)
>
>
> Regarding Grounding: Grounding is a very complex topic and it will depend on many things.  Usually a "Star" configuration should be used.  But in general it is usually best to drive KFLOP with a floating +5V supply. If you use a normal PC power supply it usually has a connection from DC GND to the case which will form a second connection to earth ground and a ground loop.  
>
> HTH
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Steve <steve@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:04 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Newbee to Kflop- simple question hopefully. Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved
>
>
>  
> TK
> Particulars:
> New computer, Intel Motherboard, Intel processor, Intel SSD drive, fresh copy of Win& Pro 32 bit with all updates, fresh install of Mach3 v067, latest Dynomotion download as of 3/4/13, nothing else on the computer.
> New Kflop board recieved a few weeks ago from Dynomotion. Firmware was updated to newest one that came with the Dynomotion download. Board is powered by a hard drive connector off a quiality Antec Power supply.
> The board has had this behavior from the start, but I though it might be because my intial 'drive by' eval was on a 64 bit Win7 machine with lots of other software on it. I left is alone until the permanenet machine was ready, but it still does the same thing even with the new computer and the new Dynomotion software.
> The screen set is box-stock Mach3 as installed by MACH using defaults. I belive it is called 1024. The button is the red stop button immeditely above the reset button.
> The Kflop is not yet attached to anything. Only the Power and USB cables are connected.
> 'Sticky' keys are not enabled.
> Mach works perfectly with the PP driver so I think the problems are with the F-Flop and/or its plug-in.
> NEW PROBLEM: 
> Now, in addition to the 'buffer starved' problem, I am getting frequent random e-stops even when I have the Estop input set to active low or disabled. This also does not happen with the MACH PP port driver.
> I'm new to Yahoo, and there is no 'attach file' buton on this editor, so I'll need to figure out how to post attachments so that I can post the files you asked for. 
> What is Dynomotion's preferred grounding method for the board?
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Steve,
> >
> > I'm not sure why that is.   There should be an immediate hardware Feedhold issued to KFLOP and then Mach3 should go idle and so forth.
> >
> > What stop button are you pushing?  What Screen Set are you using?  What KMotion Version are you running? 
> >
> >
> > Please post the C Program you are using to initialize the Axes and the Coordinate System, and also the Mach3 XML file.
> >
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Steve steve@
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 12:34 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Newbee to Kflop- simple question hopefully. Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> > This is a new install on MACH3 and every time the stop button is clicked, the g-code contiued to run until the error message appears.
> >
> > I have done a search and all I came up with was problems with limit switches.
> >
> > Why does Kflop not stop when the stop button is clicked?
> >
> > - Steve
> >
>

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "himykabibble" <jagboy1964@...> wrote:
>
> Mach3 versions 043.066 and 043.067 are known to be pretty badly borked, with worse problems than this one, and should not be used at all....
>
> Regards,
> Ray L.
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Steve,
> >
> > I was able to duplicate the problem with the Stop button with Mach3 Version 043.066 (I didn't try 043.067).  Mach3 Version 43.022 seems to work ok.
> >
> > I traced it down to Mach3 apparently sending different messages to the Plugins.  There is also a difference in the ESC key message.  I can't find any documentation on this but it seems Mach3 treats ESC similar to STOP except it doesn't turn off the Spindle.  I think the reason for this is because the ESC key can be used for other things like canceling an MDI string that is being typed in.  If we turn off the Spindle on an ESC message then we get out of sync with Mach3 (it thinks it is still on).
> >
> > All the Mach3 "Bible" says is that STOP should send 0xFFFF
> >
> > In Version 022 we observe STOP = 0xFF3BFFFF and ESC = 0xFFFFFFFF
> > In Version 066 we observe STOP = 0xFFFFFFFF and ESC = 19
> >
> > Sorry for the long winded reply and I'm not sure we fully understand it, but please try this patch.
> >
> > www.dynomotion.com/Software/Patch/FixMach3Stop/Dynomotion.dll
> >
> > Copy over the plugin in the Mach3\Plugins directory.  This Plugin is compatible with KMotion Version 4.30
> >
> >
> > Regarding random EStops:  Mach3 does not allow you to disable the EStop input.  Set it to something that won't ever change such as a KFLOP LED (port=1 Pin=46 active LOW)
> >
> >
> > Regarding Grounding: Grounding is a very complex topic and it will depend on many things.  Usually a "Star" configuration should be used.  But in general it is usually best to drive KFLOP with a floating +5V supply. If you use a normal PC power supply it usually has a connection from DC GND to the case which will form a second connection to earth ground and a ground loop.  
> >
> > HTH
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Steve <steve@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:04 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Newbee to Kflop- simple question hopefully. Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved
> >
> >
> >  
> > TK
> > Particulars:
> > New computer, Intel Motherboard, Intel processor, Intel SSD drive, fresh copy of Win& Pro 32 bit with all updates, fresh install of Mach3 v067, latest Dynomotion download as of 3/4/13, nothing else on the computer.
> > New Kflop board recieved a few weeks ago from Dynomotion. Firmware was updated to newest one that came with the Dynomotion download. Board is powered by a hard drive connector off a quiality Antec Power supply.
> > The board has had this behavior from the start, but I though it might be because my intial 'drive by' eval was on a 64 bit Win7 machine with lots of other software on it. I left is alone until the permanenet machine was ready, but it still does the same thing even with the new computer and the new Dynomotion software.
> > The screen set is box-stock Mach3 as installed by MACH using defaults. I belive it is called 1024. The button is the red stop button immeditely above the reset button.
> > The Kflop is not yet attached to anything. Only the Power and USB cables are connected.
> > 'Sticky' keys are not enabled.
> > Mach works perfectly with the PP driver so I think the problems are with the F-Flop and/or its plug-in.
> > NEW PROBLEM: 
> > Now, in addition to the 'buffer starved' problem, I am getting frequent random e-stops even when I have the Estop input set to active low or disabled. This also does not happen with the MACH PP port driver.
> > I'm new to Yahoo, and there is no 'attach file' buton on this editor, so I'll need to figure out how to post attachments so that I can post the files you asked for. 
> > What is Dynomotion's preferred grounding method for the board?
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Steve,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure why that is.   There should be an immediate hardware Feedhold issued to KFLOP and then Mach3 should go idle and so forth.
> > >
> > > What stop button are you pushing?  What Screen Set are you using?  What KMotion Version are you running? 
> > >
> > >
> > > Please post the C Program you are using to initialize the Axes and the Coordinate System, and also the Mach3 XML file.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Steve steve@
> > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 12:34 PM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Newbee to Kflop- simple question hopefully. Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a new install on MACH3 and every time the stop button is clicked, the g-code contiued to run until the error message appears.
> > >
> > > I have done a search and all I came up with was problems with limit switches.
> > >
> > > Why does Kflop not stop when the stop button is clicked?
> > >
> > > - Steve
> > >
> >
>

> Mach3 versions 043.066 and 043.067 are known to be pretty badly borked,
> with worse problems than this one, and should not be used at all....

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" <ericnc@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "himykabibble" <jagboy1964@> wrote:
> > Mach3 versions 043.066 and 043.067 are known to be pretty badly borked,
> > with worse problems than this one, and should not be used at all....
>
> Interesting.
> In fact I am using 043.066 and have *_LOTS_* of troubles!
>
> However I can find only 043.066 and 043.067 in Artsoft's download page.
> Do you know where I could download a stable version?
>
> (And why is Artsoft offering for download only two versions that are known to be buggy?)
>
> EC
>

Thanks, I just finished wiring up the K-flop to all of the interface boards and am ready to give it a try, so I bounced in here to see if there had been any activity on the issue.

Needless to say, I am very impressed and delighted that the fix was here waiting.

I will give the patched plug-in a try today with v.062 MACH and post back the result.

Thanks also for the comment on grounding. I am quite aware of the problems associated woth ground loops. That's why I asked what the K-flop likes. I have found a lot of ground loop issues with anything powered by or in some cases connected to the computer's USB bus. USB provides signal, power and earth grounds all in one convinient package, so it seems can cause all manner of problems.  

The K-flop docs seem to encourage the use of a 'standard HD power connector' so I went that rout. I intentionally do not have the Kflop board grounded, so with the exception of the USB power ground (more on that below), the only ground available to the board is thru the PC power connector. Everything connected to the K-flop is isolated from earth ground and grounds back thru the K-flop. The interface boards provide opto-isolation so anything on the 'other' side of the interface board is completely separated from the K-flop. I *think* that would prevent a ground loop.

In trying to arranage a single ground point, I have the USB earth ground (cable shield) severed at the K-Flop, but the USB power wires are still connected even though I am using the PC power supply to power the K-flop. A  jumper seems to disconnect the USB hot side, but I did not see a jumper to disconnect the power ground line, so that would seem to create two grounds to the K-flop. One thru the USB power ground and one thru the PC power supply gound. Could that be a potential problem? 

If I run the K-flop from a floating 5V transformer, to what point would the K-flop best be grounded and would that be thru the power connector or the ground plane on the board?

Thanks again for your prompt replies and solutions to problems!

- Steve

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I was able to duplicate the problem with the Stop button with Mach3 Version 043.066 (I didn't try 043.067).  Mach3 Version 43.022 seems to work ok.
>
> I traced it down to Mach3 apparently sending different messages to the Plugins.  There is also a difference in the ESC key message.  I can't find any documentation on this but it seems Mach3 treats ESC similar to STOP except it doesn't turn off the Spindle.  I think the reason for this is because the ESC key can be used for other things like canceling an MDI string that is being typed in.  If we turn off the Spindle on an ESC message then we get out of sync with Mach3 (it thinks it is still on).
>
> All the Mach3 "Bible" says is that STOP should send 0xFFFF
>
> In Version 022 we observe STOP = 0xFF3BFFFF and ESC = 0xFFFFFFFF
> In Version 066 we observe STOP = 0xFFFFFFFF and ESC = 19
>
> Sorry for the long winded reply and I'm not sure we fully understand it, but please try this patch.
>
> www.dynomotion.com/Software/Patch/FixMach3Stop/Dynomotion.dll
>
> Copy over the plugin in the Mach3\Plugins directory.  This Plugin is compatible with KMotion Version 4.30
>
>
> Regarding random EStops:  Mach3 does not allow you to disable the EStop input.  Set it to something that won't ever change such as a KFLOP LED (port=1 Pin=46 active LOW)
>
>
> Regarding Grounding: Grounding is a very complex topic and it will depend on many things.  Usually a "Star" configuration should be used.  But in general it is usually best to drive KFLOP with a floating +5V supply. If you use a normal PC power supply it usually has a connection from DC GND to the case which will form a second connection to earth ground and a ground loop.  
>
> HTH
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Steve steve@...
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:04 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Newbee to Kflop- simple question hopefully. Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved
>
>
>  
> TK
> Particulars:
> New computer, Intel Motherboard, Intel processor, Intel SSD drive, fresh copy of Win& Pro 32 bit with all updates, fresh install of Mach3 v067, latest Dynomotion download as of 3/4/13, nothing else on the computer.
> New Kflop board recieved a few weeks ago from Dynomotion. Firmware was updated to newest one that came with the Dynomotion download. Board is powered by a hard drive connector off a quiality Antec Power supply.
> The board has had this behavior from the start, but I though it might be because my intial 'drive by' eval was on a 64 bit Win7 machine with lots of other software on it. I left is alone until the permanenet machine was ready, but it still does the same thing even with the new computer and the new Dynomotion software.
> The screen set is box-stock Mach3 as installed by MACH using defaults. I belive it is called 1024. The button is the red stop button immeditely above the reset button.
> The Kflop is not yet attached to anything. Only the Power and USB cables are connected.
> 'Sticky' keys are not enabled.
> Mach works perfectly with the PP driver so I think the problems are with the F-Flop and/or its plug-in.
> NEW PROBLEM: 
> Now, in addition to the 'buffer starved' problem, I am getting frequent random e-stops even when I have the Estop input set to active low or disabled. This also does not happen with the MACH PP port driver.
> I'm new to Yahoo, and there is no 'attach file' buton on this editor, so I'll need to figure out how to post attachments so that I can post the files you asked for. 
> What is Dynomotion's preferred grounding method for the board?
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes tk@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi Steve,
> >
> > I'm not sure why that is.   There should be an immediate hardware Feedhold issued to KFLOP and then Mach3 should go idle and so forth.
> >
> > What stop button are you pushing?  What Screen Set are you using?  What KMotion Version are you running? 
> >
> >
> > Please post the C Program you are using to initialize the Axes and the Coordinate System, and also the Mach3 XML file.
> >
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Steve steve@
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 12:34 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Newbee to Kflop- simple question hopefully. Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> > This is a new install on MACH3 and every time the stop button is clicked, the g-code contiued to run until the error message appears.
> >
> > I have done a search and all I came up with was problems with limit switches.
> >
> > Why does Kflop not stop when the stop button is clicked?
> >
> > - Steve
> >
>

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <steve@...> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks, I just finished wiring up the K-flop to all of the interface
> boards and am ready to give it a try, so I bounced in here to see if
> there had been any activity on the issue.
>
> Needless to say, I am very impressed and delighted that the fix was here
> waiting.
>
> I will give the patched plug-in a try today with v.062 MACH and post
> back the result.
>
> Thanks also for the comment on grounding. I am quite aware of the
> problems associated woth ground loops. That's why I asked what the
> K-flop likes. I have found a lot of ground loop issues with anything
> powered by or in some cases connected to the computer's USB bus. USB
> provides signal, power and earth grounds all in one convinient package,
> so it seems can cause all manner of problems.
>
> The K-flop docs seem to encourage the use of a 'standard HD power
> connector' so I went that rout. I intentionally do not have the Kflop
> board grounded, so with the exception of the USB power ground (more on
> that below), the only ground available to the board is thru the PC power
> connector. Everything connected to the K-flop is isolated from earth
> ground and grounds back thru the K-flop. The interface boards provide
> opto-isolation so anything on the 'other' side of the interface board is
> completely separated from the K-flop. I *think* that would prevent a
> ground loop.
>
> In trying to arranage a single ground point, I have the USB earth ground
> (cable shield) severed at the K-Flop, but the USB power wires are still
> connected even though I am using the PC power supply to power the
> K-flop. A jumper seems to disconnect the USB hot side, but I did not
> see a jumper to disconnect the power ground line, so that would seem to
> create two grounds to the K-flop. One thru the USB power ground and one
> thru the PC power supply gound. Could that be a potential problem?
>
> If I run the K-flop from a floating 5V transformer, to what point would
> the K-flop best be grounded and would that be thru the power connector
> or the ground plane on the board?
>
> Thanks again for your prompt replies and solutions to problems!
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Steve,
> >
> > I was able to duplicate the problem with the Stop button with Mach3
> Version 043.066 (I didn't try 043.067). Mach3 Version 43.022 seems
> to work ok.
> >
> > I traced it down to Mach3 apparently sending different messages to the
> Plugins. There is also a difference in the ESC key message. I
> can't find any documentation on this but it seems Mach3 treats ESC
> similar to STOP except it doesn't turn off the Spindle. I think the
> reason for this is because the ESC key can be used for other things like
> canceling an MDI string that is being typed in. If we turn off the
> Spindle on an ESC message then we get out of sync with Mach3 (it thinks
> it is still on).
> >
> > All the Mach3 "Bible" says is that STOP should send 0xFFFF
> >
> > In Version 022 we observe STOP = 0xFF3BFFFF and ESC = 0xFFFFFFFF
> > In Version 066 we observe STOP = 0xFFFFFFFF and ESC = 19
> >
> > Sorry for the long winded reply and I'm not sure we fully understand
> it, but please try this patch.
> >
> > www.dynomotion.com/Software/Patch/FixMach3Stop/Dynomotion.dll
> >
> > Copy over the plugin in the Mach3\Plugins directory. This Plugin
> is compatible with KMotion Version 4.30
> >
> >
> > Regarding random EStops:Â Mach3 does not allow you to disable the
> EStop input. Set it to something that won't ever change such as a
> KFLOP LED (port=1 Pin=46 active LOW)
> >
> >
> > Regarding Grounding: Grounding is a very complex topic and it will
> depend on many things. Usually a "Star" configuration should be
> used. But in general it is usually best to drive KFLOP with a
> floating +5V supply. If you use a normal PC power supply it usually has
> a connection from DC GND to the case which will form a second connection
> to earth ground and a ground loop. Â
> >
> > HTH
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Steve steve@
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:04 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Newbee to Kflop- simple question hopefully.
> Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved
> >
> >
> > Â
> > TK
> > Particulars:
> > New computer, Intel Motherboard, Intel processor, Intel SSD drive,
> fresh copy of Win& Pro 32 bit with all updates, fresh install of Mach3
> v067, latest Dynomotion download as of 3/4/13, nothing else on the
> computer.
> > New Kflop board recieved a few weeks ago from Dynomotion. Firmware was
> updated to newest one that came with the Dynomotion download. Board is
> powered by a hard drive connector off a quiality Antec Power supply.
> > The board has had this behavior from the start, but I though it might
> be because my intial 'drive by' eval was on a 64 bit Win7 machine with
> lots of other software on it. I left is alone until the permanenet
> machine was ready, but it still does the same thing even with the new
> computer and the new Dynomotion software.
> > The screen set is box-stock Mach3 as installed by MACH using defaults.
> I belive it is called 1024. The button is the red stop button immeditely
> above the reset button.
> > The Kflop is not yet attached to anything. Only the Power and USB
> cables are connected.
> > 'Sticky' keys are not enabled.
> > Mach works perfectly with the PP driver so I think the problems are
> with the F-Flop and/or its plug-in.
> > NEW PROBLEM:Â
> > Now, in addition to the 'buffer starved' problem, I am getting
> frequent random e-stops even when I have the Estop input set to
> active low or disabled. This also does not happen with the MACH PP port
> driver.
> > I'm new to Yahoo, and there is no 'attach file' buton on this editor,
> so I'll need to figure out how to post attachments so that IÂ can
> post the files you asked for.Â
> > What is Dynomotion's preferred grounding method for the board?
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes tk@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Steve,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure why that is.  There should be an
> immediate hardware Feedhold issued to KFLOP and then Mach3 should go
> idle and so forth.
> > >
> > > What stop button are you pushing? What Screen Set are you
> using? What KMotion Version are you running?ÂÂ
> > >
> > >
> > > Please post the C Program you are using to initialize the Axes and
> the Coordinate System, and also the Mach3 XML file.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Steve steve@
> > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 12:34 PM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Newbee to Kflop- simple question hopefully.
> Unexpected Motion Buffer Starved
> > >
> > >
> > > ÂÂ
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a new install on MACH3 and every time the stop button is
> clicked, the g-code contiued to run until the error message appears.
> > >
> > > I have done a search and all I came up with was problems with limit
> switches.
> > >
> > > Why does Kflop not stop when the stop button is clicked?
> > >
> > > - Steve
> > >
> >
>